--- On Sat, 6/27/09, Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 2:49 PM
From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 12:23 AM
From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 3:58 PM
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From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 2:35 AM
The only thing this verse could be referring to is that the earth is flat, because even if you were on the tallest mountain with great vision, you could'nt see all ends of the earth.Of, course it didnt say directly " the earth is flat," but by that verse, you know that it could mean nothing else.
Also, i have something to point out about Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
The earth is not a circle, like the verse says, it is spherical shaped.there is a big difference. circle=2D
Sphere=3D. I think that God would know that the earth isnt 2-D, since he IS the creator.
Even if you do say that is is a circle in the the 2D view, its not true, because now in modern science, its a scientifically proven fact that the earth isnt completely circular, but it is slightly eggish/oval.
26:7 could be referring to the "Circle" it was talking about in isaiah 40:22 being hung...
I dont think someone should convert by having their religion proven wrong, but by proving their religion right. I hope you can understand, and possibly respect, that im not going to just convert to any religion easily. I need hard proof. Im sure you wouldnt believe anyone in such a big topic as religion unless you had proof.
As you can see, i still have many doubts. I hope you can explain to me why the bible says the earth is a circle, or why that if you were on a tree you could see all ends of the world. I hope you have answers since you are such a dedicated christian.
Thank you so much for your time and effort with my quest for knowledge.....
Peace and love,
Mohammad
From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 7:17 PM
From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 1:31 PM
From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 2:49 PM
hello Mathai. i admire that you have a good enough heart to stand in the street on a rainy day trying to help people. now, maybe i can try to help you, out of the purity of my heart. i read the pamphlet about the quran and the section about historical proof about the tampering of the bible. here is a link to a video pertaining to that:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIPhUY8kIBo
This lecture is given by brother abdur raheem green, a convert to islam from christianity, and he gives HISTORICAL FACTS about the bible being tampered with. This video reveals that your pamphlet is false, my friend.
Mathai, i know that it is hard to be dedicated to a religion and even think about leaving it. you must wonder why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. its not random, its happening for a REASON. but remember: it is never too late for one to make a good change within himself.
Let me know what you think...
…………………………………………………………………………………………………………http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIPhUY8kIBo
This lecture is given by brother abdur raheem green, a convert to islam from christianity, and he gives HISTORICAL FACTS about the bible being tampered with. This video reveals that your pamphlet is false, my friend.
Mathai, i know that it is hard to be dedicated to a religion and even think about leaving it. you must wonder why islam is the fastest growing religion in the world. its not random, its happening for a REASON. but remember: it is never too late for one to make a good change within himself.
Let me know what you think...
Date: Sun, 28 Jun 2009 17:16:09 -0700
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
| Dear Mohammad, Thank you for your e-mail. I really appreciate your concern for me. About the video you sent me, I went there and it is more than 1 hr. You know we all have limited time and I am working full time and have a family. It is by the love of God that I was standing at the Oaktree Rd to show the people that their sins have to be forgiven in order to go to heaven. For this, God already done everything for us by sending Jesus to die for our sins as prophesied in Torah. So because of the time limit I did not watch more than few seconds. I am really sorry about this. When I get some free time, I will try to watch. By the way, there are many short videos in U-tube proving that Bible has not been changed. Since I did not have much time I do not expect you to go and search for these videos. But I would put some information for you hear in writing. I am giving you the original copies of the Bible available today. These all are from before the time of Mohammed(PBUH) and were available as different translations throughout the known world. Now any one can compare these and see whether Bible has been changed. In addition to the NT manuscripts themselves I am listing below, we have (1) 15,000 existing copies of the various versions written in the Latin and Syriac (Christian Aramaic), some of which were written as early as 150 A.D., such as the Syriac Peshitta (150-250 A.D.) 2) Over 86,000 quotations of the New Testament in the early church father's writings[eg: Clement (30- 95 A.D.) quotes from various sections of the New Testament, Ignatius (70-110 A.D.) knew the apostles and quoted directly from 15 of the 27 books, Polycarp (70-156 A.D.) was a disciple of John and quoted from the New Testament], early Christian writers who quoted from the NT. There are enough quotations from the early church fathers that even if we did not have a single copy of the Bible, scholars could still reconstruct all but 11 verses of the entire New Testament from material written within 150 to 200 years from the time of Christ. 3) 2,135 lectionaries (church worship books) which have been cataloged from 6th century. Original Copies of Bible we have now OLD TESTAMENT Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament in Hebrew) The dead sea scrolls-All Hebrew except the book of Esther (3rd century B.C. to 1st century A.D.). Fragments of Deuteronomy, found in the Rylands Library (2nd century B.C) Leningrad Codex (1010 CE). OT Greek translations Chester Beatty papyri (2nd century and 3rd century) Codex Sinaiticus (4th century) Codex Vaticanus (4th century) Codex Alexandrinus(5th century) NEW TESTAMENT Original Copies of NT Manuscript (MS) Contains Date Magdalen Papyrus (P64) Matt 26:7-8, 10, 14-15, 22-23 and 31. Before 66 A.D. Dead Sea Scroll MSS 7Q5 Mark 6:52-53 Before 68 A.D.(could be as early as A.D. 50) Dead Sea Scroll MSS 7Q4 1 Timothy 3:16-4:3 Before 68 A.D. Barcelona Papyrus (P67) Mat 3:9, 15; Mat 5:20-22, 25-28 Before 66 A.D. Paris Papyrus (P4) Luke 3:23, 5:36 "not much later" than 66 A.D. Pauline Codex (P46) Paul's Epistles (??) 85 A.D. Bodmer Papyrus (II) (Johannine Codex P66) Gospel of John, "near complete" 125 A.D. John Rylands Greek 457 (P52) John 18:31-33, 37-38 100-125 A.D. Papyrus Oxyrhynchus 2683 (P77) Matthew 23:30-39 150 A.D. P. Oxyrhynchus 2 (P1) Matthew 1:1-9, 12, 14-20 (ca. 100 A.D.?) P. Oxyrhynchus 3523 (P90) John 18:36-19:7 ca. 125-150 A.D.? Complete or nearly complete original copies of the New Testament Chester Beatty Papyri 200 A.D. Much but not all of NT on papyrus. Codex Vaticanus 325-350 A.D. A codex is a book, as opposed to a papyrus scroll. Codex Sinaiticus 350 A.D. Codex Alexandrinus 400 A.D. Codex Ephraemi 400 A.D. Codex Bezae 450 A.D.+ Codex Washingtonensis ca. 450 A.D. Codex Claromontanus 500's A.D. (Total New Testament manuscripts = 5,300 Greek MSS, 10,000 Latin Vulgates, 9,300 others = 24,000 copies) (Total MSS compiled prior to 600 AD = 230) I would humbly ask you to read thru the portions of Quran which talks about Injeel and Torah (Surah 5: 69. Say, `O People of the Book, YOU STAND ON NOTHING UNTIL YOU OBSERVE the TORAH AND THE GOSPEL , Surah 28: 53 Those to whom WE gave the Book before the Qur'an - they believe in it, Surah 5: 45. Surely, WE sent down the Torah wherein was guidance and light. ...in the Law, BECAUSE THEY WERE REQUIRED TO PRESERVE THE BOOK of ALLAH, and because they were guardians over it) And many other verses like this. Same time you will not find Quran mentioning Torah or Ingeel had been changed. I hope this will help. With love and prayer, Your friend Mathai P |
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--- On Tue, 6/30/09, Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com> wrote:From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 12:23 AM
Hello Mathai. im sorry for the link to the long video, I didn’t think about the busy life you may have. I don’t blame you at all for not watching the video.
however, im still curious on what you think about some videoes that have undeniable proof of errors in the bible.
I’m curious, maybe these videos are wrong and you can refute them. So, i gave a link to very short videos(3 min and 1 min). If you could please explain to me, or prove these videos wrong. Thanks. Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0KW7FxOG_0&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbX-n0WQLY
P.S.
Im trying to research all the stuff you told me to look up.
however, im still curious on what you think about some videoes that have undeniable proof of errors in the bible.
I’m curious, maybe these videos are wrong and you can refute them. So, i gave a link to very short videos(3 min and 1 min). If you could please explain to me, or prove these videos wrong. Thanks. Link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0KW7FxOG_0&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfbX-n0WQLY
P.S.
Im trying to research all the stuff you told me to look up.
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Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:06:53 -0700
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
| Dear Mohammad, Thank you for your message. First of all I do not want to make our discussion a debate on someone's video. I did watch the first video. And I have good answer for this. If you have any particular question from that video I would be happy to answer you. I just searched in u-tube 'earth is flat'. Please watch this video about what quran says about earth Please do not take this as an offence to you. I am just trying to show you how people talk about other people’s faith and twist it. One thing I want to tell you with love is that if you want to go to heaven follow Jesus Christ. He is in heaven and He is coming back as the Judge. Please remember there is only one way to heaven, that is thru Jesus who came to remove punishment by taking punishment upon HIM. Jesus said: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. Joh 14:6 Please write to me. With love and prayer, Mathai |
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--- On Tue, 6/30/09, Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com> wrote:From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Tuesday, June 30, 2009, 3:58 PM
Hello Mathai. how are you? i did watch the video about the earth being flat. but easily, i found the answer to this video easily in only about 3 min. video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Gp6ecagdM
I dont want to debate either, out of these videos. but it seems that everything christianity says opposing islam, islam can refute it. if me, or any one were to believe jesus is god, there needs to be proof. Thats just the way everything works, my friend.
P.S. about that verse:
Jesus said: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. Joh 14:6
There are so many verses in the bible itself that contradict it. To name some of the verses:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0Gp6ecagdM
I dont want to debate either, out of these videos. but it seems that everything christianity says opposing islam, islam can refute it. if me, or any one were to believe jesus is god, there needs to be proof. Thats just the way everything works, my friend.
P.S. about that verse:
Jesus said: I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father but by Me. Joh 14:6
There are so many verses in the bible itself that contradict it. To name some of the verses:
- Gospel of John ch. 14 V. 28
"My father is better than I"
- Gospel of John ch.10 V. 29
"My father is better than all."
- Gospel of Matthew Ch. 12 V. 28
"I cast out devils with the spirit of God."
- Gospel of John Ch. 5 V. 30
"I can of my own self do nothing."
How can I possibly believe Jesus is god, and the way when THE BIBLE says itself contradicts it.
Please reply. Peace.
How can I possibly believe Jesus is god, and the way when THE BIBLE says itself contradicts it.
Please reply. Peace.
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Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 21:32:44 -0700
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
| Dear Mohammad, Let me make this comment about earth being flat by Bible. Bible never said that earth is flat. Instead Bible gives us ample evidence that earth is round and it is fixed upon nothing. Please read Isa 40:22 It is He who sits on the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers Job 26:7 He stretches out the north over the empty place, and He hung the earth on nothing. Zakir Naik is showing his ignorance of the Bible when he takes verses that has nothing to do with the shape of the earth. If you want I can give good explanation for all those verses he mentioned. None of those verses prove that earth is flat according to Bible. About the video you sent me (I did not watch), I do not think it is a good idea to write back and forth about these issues and show others opinions unless you think you will be converted once I show you the errors in Quran. If you do a search in the web for “contradiction errors in Quran” you will get a lot of answers and you can also get to sites where this was refuted. However we should spend time discussing the core principles of faith. I am going to answer you the concern you had saying that there are so many verses contradicting what Jesus said. Let me tell you first, none of these verses are contradicting. When you understand why Jesus came in human form (God in the flesh), you will not see any contradiction and you will accept Jesus as you Lord and Savior. Let me repeat your question to see if I understood correctly. If Jesus is God why Jesus says My Father is greater than Me, etc… Answer: The whole human kind (including Mohammed,PBUH ) has sinned against the righteous and holy God. Sin has to be punished and also these sinners cannot go to heaven. Punishment for sin is hell. That means there was no way any man who is born of woman could escape the punishment (hell)since all have sinned (Rom 3:23 for all have sinned, Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord). People can try to be good and try to do righteousness but before a holy God they are sinners and their righteous works are like filthy rags. God in His mercy did something to save humans from Judgment (hell). That is what God did. For God so loved the world that He gave His only-begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life (Joh 3:16). God Himself as the SON OF GOD came to earth and born as a normal baby as prophesied in Torah (Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace). In order to bear the sins of human, SON OF GOD came as a human but without sin. This sinless SON OF GOD (Jesus) took the sins of those who believe in HIM and got punished (died on the cross) because of the sins of others as prophesied in Torah (The whole chapter 53 prophesy about crucifixion of Jesus but I would just put one verse, Isa 53:8 .. For He was cut off out of the land of the living; for the transgression of My people He was stricken). This way punishment for my sins was taken by Jesus and therefore I do face punishment but heaven. In order to represent a human to die for their sins God had to come in a human nature humbling Himself. This is the reason why you would see verses that represent human nature for Jesus and same time verses that represent divinity of Jesus. This is because Jesus on earth was both God and Human. So these verses are not contradictory. I can show you many examples of Jesus showing His divinity and at the same time His humanity. Now remember, Bible clearly says this “He who believes on the Son has everlasting life, and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides upon him (Joh 3:36). So there is no alternative way for any human but to believe and follow Jesus to escape the wrath of God. Please write to me if you are not clear. With love and prayer, Your friend Mathai P P.S. Two verses you gave me were wrong.
"My father is better than I"
"My father is better than all." Here better should be changed to greater. Where did you get this verses? |
--- On Thu, 7/2/09, Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, July 2, 2009, 2:35 AM
Dear Mathai,
Hello, how are you? First of all, i appreciate you taking the time to answer questions for me, and trying to explain things to me. It shows you are a caring man. And, we know that everyone in their right mind wants to do good, and be on the rightful, true path, which on my part, is why im writing to you.
You said that the bible never said that the Earth is flat. What about:
Hello, how are you? First of all, i appreciate you taking the time to answer questions for me, and trying to explain things to me. It shows you are a caring man. And, we know that everyone in their right mind wants to do good, and be on the rightful, true path, which on my part, is why im writing to you.
You said that the bible never said that the Earth is flat. What about:
DAN 4:11 The tree grew and became strong; Its height reached to the heavens, And it could be seen to the ends of all the earth.
The only thing this verse could be referring to is that the earth is flat, because even if you were on the tallest mountain with great vision, you could'nt see all ends of the earth.Of, course it didnt say directly " the earth is flat," but by that verse, you know that it could mean nothing else.
Also, i have something to point out about Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
The earth is not a circle, like the verse says, it is spherical shaped.there is a big difference. circle=2D
Sphere=3D. I think that God would know that the earth isnt 2-D, since he IS the creator.
Even if you do say that is is a circle in the the 2D view, its not true, because now in modern science, its a scientifically proven fact that the earth isnt completely circular, but it is slightly eggish/oval.
26:7 could be referring to the "Circle" it was talking about in isaiah 40:22 being hung...
I dont think someone should convert by having their religion proven wrong, but by proving their religion right. I hope you can understand, and possibly respect, that im not going to just convert to any religion easily. I need hard proof. Im sure you wouldnt believe anyone in such a big topic as religion unless you had proof.
As you can see, i still have many doubts. I hope you can explain to me why the bible says the earth is a circle, or why that if you were on a tree you could see all ends of the world. I hope you have answers since you are such a dedicated christian.
Thank you so much for your time and effort with my quest for knowledge.....
Peace and love,
Mohammad
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Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2009 11:16:21 -0700
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
| Dear Mohammad, Thank you for the reply. As you mentioned everyone want to do good but the truth is good does not come automatically. We can see the sinful nature even in a child. God knew our lost state and He did everything to save us from this sinful nature to give us a new heart. Our heart has to be changed and then we can be good and go to heaven. This person who receives the plan of God in them have the real joy and peace. I was in my sinful state myself and God changed me, filled me with His Spirit to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh. Let me answer your questions. First of all, there is lot of books that talk about shape of earth, its dimension, what is in the core of the earth, mode of travel, etc clearly. That does not make them the Word of God. Daniel 4:11 does not say earth is flat. This is a dream God of the bible gave to Nebuchadnezzar the Babylonian king (present Iraq) (Dan 4:5 I saw a dream and it terrified me, and the thoughts on my bed and the visions of my head troubled me). God used dreams many times to convey the message of what is going to happen. The point here is that this tree is so big that everyone could see this. It is a wrong conclusion if someone says earth is flat based on this dream that was given to convey a message. Let us go to Isaiah 40:22. There the original Hebrew word for circle (חוּג chûg) means sphere. Pro 8:27 also confirms the spherical nature of the earth. Here it is talking about the creation of the earth (When He prepared the heavens, I was there; when He set a circle upon the face of the deep). The point about Job 26:7 is that earth is not standing on anything but standing in space. I am here to answer any of your honest questions. I can point out to you many mistakes and contradictions in Quran and I do not think it is a wise thing to do as we both value our time. I really want to tell you this. I have no intention of converting anyone to another religion. Religions cannot save us from the Judgment that is coming. God does not have a religion, only people have religion and with their religion people are trying to go to heaven. Unfortunately they cannot. ONLY by believing in Jesus for their forgiveness of sins and following Jesus can give them heaven. Thank you for taking the time to read my message. Let me tell you this, many dear muslims told me that they will contact me. But I got email only from you. I appreciate it. Also I do not think I would recognize you when I see you next time since I talk to different people, so please come and say hello to me. With love and prayer, Mathai |
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--- On Fri, 7/3/09, Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com> wrote:From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Friday, July 3, 2009, 7:17 PM
Dear Mathai,
Hello, i have been waiting for your reply, because i like having my questions answered.
In daniel, you're right; one shouldnt say that bible made mistake based on the dream.
I really picked up the bible and started studying, because im on my quest for knowledge. But, i came along something in Isaiah. I actually read the Whole verse(40:22):
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
After giving extensive thought i think: if the bible really says the earth is spherical, then why does it continue to say that God streches it out like a canopy and spreads them out a tent to live in. Im pretty sure its impossible to put a tent over a sphere.
SO, i continued to go deeper by searching the word chug myself and got results: circle, coterie, course, orb,circuit. I know that the word could be referring to either circle or orb(which means"spherical object). So, i came across another verse(Mathew 4:8)
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
In this verse, hes not in a dream, and even if you go to the tallest mountain, and had perfect vision, you still couldnt see all kingdoms of the world. Please explain this to me.
You are right, there are alot of books that have scientific information, but are not the word of God. So, i want to talk about the fundamental of Christianity: that the way to salvation is to believe that jesus is god. I have a couple of questions about that, if you could please answer them for me...
salvation is a big thing in religion, and everyone wants it, including you and me. Every person wants to go to paradise and not hell. So, if christianity's salvation is worshipping Jesus, and believing he's god, then why isnt it explicitly stated? I know that in the Quran, which ive read alot, it constantly says that there is only one God, and that Mohammed, Jesus, Moses,etc. (peace be upon all of them) are the MESSENGERS of god. That is the fundament of Islam, and believing that is salvation, which is why its stated so much. If God did truly come in the flesh as Jesus, why wasnt it explicitly stated? I dont think this is something that God would beat around the bush, and give little hints-no, it is an issue of salvation.
When the jews came to Jesus and asked him you call yourself God, wouldnt Jesus had said, " yes, i am God, im here to save you from your sins" instead of saying " you say i am God"? It doesnt make sense...
And i know that you will bring up john 1:1 and other verses, but they DONT directly state that jesus is God, or Jesus saying that he is God.
Once again thanks for answering my Q's. Have a good day.
Hello, i have been waiting for your reply, because i like having my questions answered.
In daniel, you're right; one shouldnt say that bible made mistake based on the dream.
I really picked up the bible and started studying, because im on my quest for knowledge. But, i came along something in Isaiah. I actually read the Whole verse(40:22):
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
After giving extensive thought i think: if the bible really says the earth is spherical, then why does it continue to say that God streches it out like a canopy and spreads them out a tent to live in. Im pretty sure its impossible to put a tent over a sphere.
SO, i continued to go deeper by searching the word chug myself and got results: circle, coterie, course, orb,circuit. I know that the word could be referring to either circle or orb(which means"spherical object). So, i came across another verse(Mathew 4:8)
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor.
In this verse, hes not in a dream, and even if you go to the tallest mountain, and had perfect vision, you still couldnt see all kingdoms of the world. Please explain this to me.
You are right, there are alot of books that have scientific information, but are not the word of God. So, i want to talk about the fundamental of Christianity: that the way to salvation is to believe that jesus is god. I have a couple of questions about that, if you could please answer them for me...
salvation is a big thing in religion, and everyone wants it, including you and me. Every person wants to go to paradise and not hell. So, if christianity's salvation is worshipping Jesus, and believing he's god, then why isnt it explicitly stated? I know that in the Quran, which ive read alot, it constantly says that there is only one God, and that Mohammed, Jesus, Moses,etc. (peace be upon all of them) are the MESSENGERS of god. That is the fundament of Islam, and believing that is salvation, which is why its stated so much. If God did truly come in the flesh as Jesus, why wasnt it explicitly stated? I dont think this is something that God would beat around the bush, and give little hints-no, it is an issue of salvation.
When the jews came to Jesus and asked him you call yourself God, wouldnt Jesus had said, " yes, i am God, im here to save you from your sins" instead of saying " you say i am God"? It doesnt make sense...
And i know that you will bring up john 1:1 and other verses, but they DONT directly state that jesus is God, or Jesus saying that he is God.
Once again thanks for answering my Q's. Have a good day.
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Date: Tue, 7 Jul 2009 15:25:39 -0700
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
From: Mathai@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mohammad2000@hotmail.com
| Dear Mohammad, I appreciate that you picked up a Bible and start reading it. I would suggest you to read the NT first then go to the OT. Read the Gospel of John and Mathew Chapters 5-7. This is just a suggestion. Now let me answer your concerns. 1) In Isa 40:22 God says “stretches out the heavens LIKE a curtain (canopy) and spreads them out LIKE a tent TO DWELL IN.” The point here is that God made heavens like a curtain or tent to make the earth a livable place (as the roof protect the heavens protect). This does not mean earth has to be flat. You can put a roof over a spherical structure. Also note the word “LIKE” here. Heaven is LIKE a curtain/tent. If you are not satisfied with this explanation I can point this out from Quran. Sura 21: 32: And We have made the sky (heavens) as roof (canopy) well guarded… Sura 2: 22: Who has made the earth your couch, And the heavens (Sky) your canopy; Is Quran saying earth is flat according to Sura 21: 32 and Sura 2: 22 ? But if you read Surah 15:19 you may be able to say earth is flat than the evidence from Sura 21: 32 and Sura 2: 22 (15:19: And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon Mountains firm and immovable) 2) Matt 4:8 says: Again, the Devil took Him up into a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. Now imagine, even if the earth was flat can anyone see all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. People living in old or present century know that there is a limit for how far we can see. If you read from verse 1-8 you can see the supernatural element here. Here, the Satan is talking to the Son of God. In a supernatural way Satan is showing Jesus everything. Satan did not have to take Jesus to a mountain to do this; it can be done in a valley too. But if you look at the transition here, satan is trying to give elevated position to Jesus. Satan started from the desert (lowest- verse 1), then to the pinnacle of the Temple (higher level-verse 5) and then to the mountain (highest point- verse 8). ((Adam failed the test of satan but Jesus got victory!!!)) 3a) Let us look at the issue you raised about salvation. Bible is very clear about Salvation. Salvation was brought to human kind by the sacrificial death of Jesus Christ for the sins. (Jesus says in Mar 10:45 “For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many.” and in Luke 9:56 “For the Son of Man has not come to destroy men's lives, but to save”). This is the reason why Acts 4:12 says, “And there is SALVATION IN NO OTHER ONE; for there is no other name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Romans 10:9 says how one can be saved (IF YOU CONFESS THE LORD JESUS, AND BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD HAS RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, YOU SHALL BE SAVED). 3b) Now let us go into the issue of Jesus being worshipped as God. Your question is does Jesus say I am God? Let us look at these passages: John 14:8-9 Philip said to Him, Lord, show us the Father.. Jesus said to him, Have I been with you such a long time and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father. And how do you say, Show us the Father? John 14:7 If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also. And from now on you know Him and have seen Him. Here Jesus is clearly saying He is God. Jews wanted to kill Jesus because Jesus made Himself equal to God (John 5:18 Jews sought ..to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL WITH GOD. John 10:33..For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, BEING A MAN, MAKEST THYSELF GOD. Jesus is called God in the Old Testament (Isa 9:6 For to us a Child is born, to us a Son is given; and the government shall be on His shoulder; and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace). Jesus is called God in the New Testament (John 1:1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. Tit 2:13 ..looking for the blessed hope, and the appearance of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ. Heb 1:8 But to the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever. 1Jn 5:20 And we know that the Son of God has come, and He has given us an understanding so that we may know Him who is true. ... This is the true God, and the everlasting life. God in OT (Isa 48:12 …. I am He; I AM THE FIRST, I also am THE LAST). Allah in Quran (Surah 57:3 HE IS THE FIRST AND THE LAST, and the Manifest and the Hidden, ..) Jesus in NT (Rev 22:13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, THE FIRST AND THE LAST). God in OT (Isa 60:19 … but Jehovah will be to you for EVERLASTING LIGHT, .) Allah in Quran (24: 36. ALLAH is the LIGHT OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH). Jesus in NT (Joh 8:12 Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying, I AM THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD). Many examples like this….Jesus as the Judge, King, etc.. 3c) If Jesus is God why did not He say it explicitly? As I wrote you earlier, Jesus did not come to show that He is God. He came to represent sinless Human to die for sins. But whenever Jesus was pressed to say about Him He did so. Look at this: Matt 26:63-65 But Jesus was silent. And the high priest answered and said to Him, I adjure you by the living God that you tell us whether you are the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said to him, You said it. I tell you more. From this time you shall see the Son of Man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming on the clouds of the heavens. Then the high priest tore his clothes, saying, He has spoken blasphemy! What further need do we have of witnesses? Behold, now you have heard his blasphemy. Sorry for the delay in answering you. May the Lord bless you. Please write to me. With love and prayer Mathai |
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--- On Thu, 7/9/09, Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com> wrote:From: Mohammad <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: hello Mathai
To: Mathai@yahoo.com
Date: Thursday, July 9, 2009, 1:31 PM
hello my friend. ive been allitle busy lately, ill probably send a reply friday or saturday.
Peace,
Mohammad
Peace,
Mohammad
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Thursday, July 9, 2009 10:20 PM
From: "Mathai P" <Mathai@yahoo.com>
To: "Mohammad" <Mohammad2000@hotmail.com>
| Dear Mohammad, That is fine. I will be away for two days. With love and prayer, Mathai …………………………………………………………………………………………………………………….. END OF THIS CORRESPONDANCE. TO KEEP IDENTITY OF INDUVIDUALS PRIVATE FALSE EMAIL IDs AND NAMES WERE USED |
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